A Secular Conservative Take on Suicide - It's your body, do with it what you want.

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  • KennKong reply To be fair, instead of just criticizing your position, I should also state mine. I advocate for the "run away" doctrine. If you have legal standing and grounds to prevent a person from just getting into a car and running away forever, you have the same rights to intervene in their suicide. If a court could order their return or impose a penalty upon them for running away, it could prevent your suicide. I also advocate for the "do you really mean it" doctrine. Suicide is legal, but only by guillotine in public.
  • [ – ] KennKong reply Some people do have a vested interest in the lives of others. Children, in particular. Should a new mother suffering from post-partum depression be allowed to commit suicide? In this case, some would argue that she isn't of sound mind, and isn't capable of making a rational decision. That just leaves us in the position of deciding *for others* who is of sound *enough* mind. Bodily autonomy isn't a sufficient principle for suicide. It must be tempered, as all rights must, by a limitation against infringing the rights of others. So unless you actually advocate for complete anarchy, where anyone is free to violate the (now non-existent) rights of others, you end up in a situation where others do have some say so over your right to your body. We end up arguing over where to draw the line, which is the situation we are already in. So, advocating for the position you do will change nothing. You need to recognize that most people do (and always will) make decisions based upon feelings. ...moreThen you need to come up with a workable set of laws to allow courts to be the final word in the inevitable disputes that will arise. You need to propose laws that determine who was standing to oppose a suicide. Do we include children, spouses, parents, business partners, and who else? You need laws that determine sufficient grounds for opposing suicide. Dependency, marital privilege, contracts? I've disagreed with your position on rationality versus feelings in our discussions of the death penalty. People do have feelings, and if they didn't have feelings about issues as serious as life and death, they'd be robots, not humans. You need to realize that it is irrational of you to expect other people to reject their own strongest emotions. Instead of telling people to "just get over it", you need to propose workable social mechanisms for dealing with the inevitable feelings that people actually have. Your attempt at rationality is irrational because it denies reality. You are the one who needs to get real and learn how to deal with emotions.
    • Bitchspot parent reply But you're just trying to pile restrictions onto the situation. Let's get rid of all of that. Take one of the cases I brought up in the video, Brittany Maynard. She had no children and had a husband who was very supportive of her decision. No one had a vested interest in her survival, in fact, she wasn't going to survive regardless. That didn't stop people from wading into the situation and trying to force her not to take her own life. And even if she did have children, that's between her and them, it doesn't involve any of the people on the outside who tried to keep her from acting on her wishes. It is none of their damn business. That was my point all along. And just because most people act on feelings, that doesn't mean that they should. The "stupid people are stupid" argument, wherein people are just too stupid to know any better so we should cater to their stupidity, is ridiculous.
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